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 More advice on same width tires needed .

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darkstar
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PostSubject: More advice on same width tires needed .   Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:03 pm

Simple question here - ive been running the same width tires all the way around on a can am renegade .

What are the disadvantages of this in a race , a harescramble race ?

Keep in mind im running full time 4 wheel drive and i have power steering .
I also have a Bopp racing front end .


I dont really have any ideas what this is doing to the handling of my bike except that i really really like the way it handles far above than when i had the stock set up .

Its 10 inch wide tires , all the way around -
Can someone take a stab and tell me what they see happening here - keeping in mind im running full time four wheel drive and power steering .

Anycomments welcomed and appreciated .
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moto92
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Location : Mt. Vernon, IL.

PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:49 am

my thoughts would be the front end would push. you have power steering so physically it wouldnt be hard to steer but i dont think the response will be there.
also think it would be easier to catch a tree, root, rock...
a rear tire usually bounces off but a front can send you over the bars
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NO4NCRP
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Location : Iowa.. but workin in Fayetteville TN

PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:51 am

moto92 wrote:
my thoughts would be the front end would push. you have power steering so physically it wouldnt be hard to steer but i dont think the response will be there.
also think it would be easier to catch a tree, root, rock...
a rear tire usually bounces off but a front can send you over the bars

BINGO!!!


and Jerri I would shy away from running 4wd all the time on your bike. With as much power as your making, at high speeds its just a matter of time before that prop shaft or thru shaft snaps. especially if you land it and are accelerating. just my $.02 but what do I know Wink
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:21 pm

Well Jason pretty much everybody is running full time 4 wheel drive there days and when i land i am never on it . Now i coiuld make a mistake but whlie im in the air its usually pretty easy to let off alittle .
I totally agree with hitting a root or anything as neing one of the main disadvantages.
As far as response - jesus it has amazing response - that the real shocker is thast its actually almost to responsive .

Think of some more disadvantages please .
And if you can come up with some Advantages as well

Ive got about 300 miles on the set up already but im far from sold and i really appreciate the feedback
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:33 pm

Moto 22 when you say push -you meen push through the turns correct ?
I installed that Bopp front end to help with that but i kinda feel a push effect .

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powerbomb400
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:50 pm

In Hare Scrambles its balls to the wall the whole time. With the solid rear axle you need the front end to cut like a razor. The only disadvantage I see Jerri is the extra weight. With your bike I don't think it would matter. I agree with NO4NCRP about the drive train. Might be something that you will have to upgrade in the future. Seems if you upgrade one thing then another has to be upgraded. Its a never ending cycle. Wink
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Dan
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:42 pm

4wd is the only way to go... if it is available... particularily if it is a slick track. If you can scratch all four on a dry track, then all tracks will be effectively slick. You surely don't want to be pushing the extra resistance of a geared front end when it will certainly help pull thru the turns.

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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:38 am

''''You surely don't want to be pushing the extra resistance of a geared front end when it will certainly help pull thru the turns. ''''' DAN


That is exactly my thought completly , you said what i could not say .
Thanks .

The more feed back the better thanks guys very very much .
I have done the moter its got to much HP ,,,,,prop busting HP.
Thats another reason im running 23 inch tall tires - less likely to mgtsb - yeah they give me less clearence but heck the sport quads all have way way less clearence so my thoughts are if they can run it ,, then i need to just deal with it .
As far as busting the prop shaft supposedly the 2010 models and up have better steel.
Who knows - im trying to land softly to land soft and do not have it pinned obviouly. Also not do anything stupid/Jody here is your cue ????LOL

Thanks again yall have been very helpful.

So this is what we got STM clutch
85 RWHP}
Terry Bopp of BOPP racing front end and Gusseted frame with major reinforced main chassis,

Running on cheao super light weight weight IPPs no bead locks - woll proably change to the origins bed lock wheels or preferably go to a carbon fiber wheels .

Finally i need ???????????
To get more fit -
Air dyne bike , seems the best fit .
Got on it and warmed up then -Held pulse rate to 170 for 33 min.Seriouly almost died rested briefly 4 times but active resting .Whoever says the air dyne bike is not brutal isnt pedaling hard enough.

So what do i need most no felllows , its obvious -

Shocks----- where to go for this?????????

More advice please .....

Ill br there in Florida form the first round then everyone else i hope.

LORD WILLING


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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:19 pm

No one has any comments -

Ok i ran the set up - Heres my call - yeah Jason i have been doing alot of two wheel driving .
Its way way more fun, slinging the back end around - after that though i want 4 wheel drive to gain massive traction but you cant just slam it in .
So im more stuck in 4 wheel drive than not .
Also alot of the racers say they r running 4 wheel drive full time now , man im not sure .
Ok on the tires set up . LOL i ran the stock set up today for a baseline - nearly flipped 4 times in 20 mins- thhat fron hole shot tire just grabs , caves in alittle and over you go .
Ok i ran my set up 10 inch wide by 23 tall all four tires - It pushes me in curves even with Bopp racing front end , keep in mind im in 4 wheel drive .
If not oh man i just break traction and spin it around but then when i lay on the power i lose alot of thrust lol from spinning back tires .
So anyhow i run 4 wheel drive its a wrestle , but i make the turn and my take off is insane .
Its so fast with Mr rpm moter .
In the woods im wider with the tens , sux for clipping a tree .
But i can swivel right or left so fast .

A comparison - most of the bad butt sport quads have really wide rear tires .
They seem to be as wide as me ???
So shouldnt i be able to bump the back rims alot and make it through as long as i dont catch a front .

Next and only other option is running 8s all the way around .
I havent tried that because i only have 2 - 23 inch 8s
I can try 25 inch tall 8 inch wide - alot of guys are running this ......
Maybe thats where its at .

Ive got alot into this thing so am trying to get her right .
I love 23 tall tires - got to have a good skid plate but man you can run more or less anything but MUD.

Advice needed .
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:43 pm

If you think about it 10 inch wide tires are not that wider than 8 inch .
Only one inch sticks out.
Maybe i need to run the wider set up untill i gain the skill to run 8s
yall sure dont comment much on this ---
But i hear what you did above - there were several discrepencies.
Dan says 4 wheel drive is best for sure .
So do i .
Jason who has raced alot and has can am expierence says no .
Yall help me out please .
60 days befor im supposed to go to my first GNCC race .
For me this is a big deal
Its also a long road coming - lol and 12 hour drive .
I can always skip it - the rest of the races are way closer except New York.
I want to go though - anyone want to get paid to help me out ?
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Dan
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:46 pm

Here is a little food for thought...

What about shocks and sway bar? Those have much to do with steering a solid rear axle in high speed turns. Low speed compression set to high will make the suspension tighter by not allowing the body to roll as fast. You need some body roll in order to lift the inside rear just enough for you to drift the turn... 2wd or 4wd. You can help this by moving your weight onto the outside footpeg, also.

How much camber in the front? This will probably not be easily changed. A half inch or so negative camber, along with a bit of positive toe-in, could make the machine very nimble in turns. I have just did this on the RZR to make it turn more quickly. A lot of folks don't like this setup on an ATV because on some bikes this will feel like oversteer.
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:44 am

Excellant post Dan - we have been going over shocks alot .
Thats still to be decided - the 2011 outlander has a very nice shock - they are hard to beat .
Exit shocks liely beat them , that about the only feed back anyone will admit to and even a fellow who helped with that shock sounded like he would be on the stocker in florida.
Now the Camber / Castor is adjustable with the new racing front end - i just need to get it right . Greg Mr RPM hated it but he also said hed never drove a power steering quad .
I asked him if he turned much and he said NO. None , but he didnt think it handled well .
Coming from drag racer i could see that . Also it took me 800 miles to get used to powersteering . That PS really changes things .
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:48 am

Oh and sway bar - i need to loosen it up somehow , its just in a bind .
Im really not sure but todays lesson was all about rubber .
Im sure riding with the narrow more razo like stock tires are what keep me flipping over sharp turns - they grab and fold or dig .Over you go - or if lucky a quick correction .
Thats hasent happened running same size tires all the way around .

I hear ya Dan - ill not be lifting my inside tire man on a sharp turn .
Maybe thats above my level - it will lift for sure but after its a foot or so up ill try and put her back down LOL.
In 4 wheel drive i am pushing through the turns , i wish the bike had better in an out 4 wheel drive .
Its not like the others you just cant slam it in and out at any time .
I hear there is a mod for this but i have yet to find it .
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Dan
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Location : On a hill, Clinton, TN

PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:43 pm

They make adjustable sway bars for auto racers... The sway bar is just a simple torsion spring. You change the amount of wheel coupling by changing the spring constant...
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:21 pm

The outlanders bind up say when one wheel is way higher than the other .
Take a look at one .
Needs a hyme joint on the end maybe .
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Dan
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:20 pm

What is binding?
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wolf1
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Location : Ringgold Ga.

PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:27 pm

darkstar wrote:
No one has any comments -

Ok i ran the set up - Heres my call - yeah Jason i have been doing alot of two wheel driving .
Its way way more fun, slinging the back end around - after that though i want 4 wheel drive to gain massive traction but you cant just slam it in .
So im more stuck in 4 wheel drive than not .
Also alot of the racers say they r running 4 wheel drive full time now , man im not sure .
Ok on the tires set up . LOL i ran the stock set up today for a baseline - nearly flipped 4 times in 20 mins- thhat fron hole shot tire just grabs , caves in alittle and over you go .
Ok i ran my set up 10 inch wide by 23 tall all four tires - It pushes me in curves even with Bopp racing front end , keep in mind im in 4 wheel drive .
If not oh man i just break traction and spin it around but then when i lay on the power i lose alot of thrust lol from spinning back tires .
So anyhow i run 4 wheel drive its a wrestle , but i make the turn and my take off is insane .
Its so fast with Mr rpm moter .
In the woods im wider with the tens , sux for clipping a tree .
But i can swivel right or left so fast .

A comparison - most of the bad butt sport quads have really wide rear tires .
They seem to be as wide as me ???
So shouldnt i be able to bump the back rims alot and make it through as long as i dont catch a front .

Next and only other option is running 8s all the way around .
I havent tried that because i only have 2 - 23 inch 8s
I can try 25 inch tall 8 inch wide - alot of guys are running this ......
Maybe thats where its at .

Ive got alot into this thing so am trying to get her right .
I love 23 tall tires - got to have a good skid plate but man you can run more or less anything but MUD.

Advice needed .

how are you coming out in the races?
in theory you should be able to go as wide in the rear as the sport quads.
though every change will make a difference in handling.

i ride on what iam most comfortable with and make adjustments in my riding to make up for lost time if possible, if not possible i look for other avenues.. cams, sprockets, whatever puts me closer to the finish line first.
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wolf1
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Age : 46
Location : Ringgold Ga.

PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:28 pm

it is interesting running wider tires on the front..hmmm.
makes me want to try a little wider on the 450er
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: More advice on same width tires needed .   Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:01 pm

Im done with wider in the front , i learned alot riding in the snow .
They are not hooking up on snow so id say they wont hook up in slippery hard pack .
Nothing really does but im gonna run 8 front 10 rear , looking at terra croses.
Trying to run the same set up Bryan Buccannon runs - i swear it think hes got 24's tall .
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