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 Running hot

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NO4NCRP
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:11 pm

when your mashing down on it the coolant is hauling balls through your system and not able to cool down, you need a thermostat to regulate this... Just sayin
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NO4NCRP
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:12 pm

he took it out because it was a cold natured bike.... Sounds to me like you now have a warmed nature bike think
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:21 pm

Yeah im real suprised the oval track could not make it hot .
Its pretty brutal on the bike , wide open to braking to wide open to braking .
And then there is a figure 8 - its all real short.
Ran it untill i got tired and no over heat .
Got on the road and wam im hot .
First half mile run great
second hot
third really hot
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:24 pm

He didnt take it out because t was cold natured at all .
He took it out because he takes all of them out - period .
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Dan
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:51 pm

OK, Jerr... you NEED a thermostat... and a higher capacity cooling system. You probably are still running the stock one that was marginally designed to handle the original horsepower level... at wide open when you are making the most power. Now you come along and add approximately 50% to your max power level. Now when you make max power, it boils over. Your cooling system cannot handle the 50% increase power load it has to dissipate now since it was only designed to handle the OEM load.

Thumper can create 38 HP. Thumper's cooling system is designed to dissipate 2.2 KW. That works well. Based on these numbers, your 78 HP needs a cooling system that can dissipate 4.6 KW.

As long as you average power level is within the OEM design, you wil not see any problem. Short hard bursts of power shouldn't cause a problem because the overall average power is below the design limit.

You really need a larger radiator with larger fan, a larger capadity water pump... and a thermostat... if you are going to make average power at or near the max power level. This coolant heating thing is simply a matter of capacity.

Let me try to explain it this way. Suppose you have a cooling system that can marginally handle 100 HP and your engine has a conversion effiency of 50%. That means that when 100 HP is being generated at the crankshaft another 100 HP is being generated as heat. Let's assume 80% of the generated heat goes out the exhaust. With this situation a cooling system that can dissipate 20 HP will just get it done. This system will now run max for extended periods of time. Now let us up the max power to 150 HP on this same engine/cooling system. You will find you can make short bursts of max power with no problems as long as the average cooling load is less than or equal to 20 HP. Now take it out on the road to where you are making max power for a long period of time. The cooling system now is REQUIRED to dissipate 30 HP. The cooling system can safely handle 20 HP safely. You have overloaded the cooling system by 10 HP. Guess what? It spews violently.

There is more to building a high powered engine than just pistons, valves, and cams. You got to handle the extra heat dissipation that comes with the higher power level. To do it right, you also have to beef up the drive train, or be twisting axles, etc., all the time.

I hope this make sense...
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Bootlegger
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:10 am

HL Triple Flow Radiator might help. Is it getting hot with an 840? I would try what Dan and Jason said...I've seen a lot of 916's and a few 960's with stock radiators and no problems at all. Also...he didn't tune it too lean did he?

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CanAmChris
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:21 am

Bootlegger wrote:
HL Triple Flow Radiator might help. Is it getting hot with an 840? I would try what Dan and Jason said...I've seen a lot of 916's and a few 960's with stock radiators and no problems at all. Also...he didn't tune it too lean did he?

and 1004, 1069,1107cc all running stock radiators.. I dont think its a Rad issue.. Put the thermostat back in and go from there .
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wildman
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:41 pm

and like i said earlier that boot mentioned, maybe richen it up just a hair!! it will cool it down a lil!! i have heard bad things bout mr rpm, just sayin!
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Bootlegger
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:35 pm



I would do what Chris said...and go from there. I wouldn't think it was the radiator due to all the Big motors running stock ones. I was try the thermostat and then check the tuning or have someone re tune it. You can tune may different ways...if he tuned it like they tune their drag bikes...I would say its lean. Running one on the lean side for a few seconds don't hurt it...but riding like you are...it will make it run hot.

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powerbomb400
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:55 pm

Jerri welcome to the world of upgrading the machine. It took awhile to get the jetting right on Marie 02 250ex when me and Tom did all the upgrades. I agree that you need the themostat back in and like Wildman said richen the fuel mixture up. Running lean makes more horsepower but also makes the motor run hot. If you run it to hot you will melt a hole in the piston.
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:30 pm

Bootlegger wrote:


I would do what Chris said...and go from there. I wouldn't think it was the radiator due to all the Big motors running stock ones. I was try the thermostat and then check the tuning or have someone re tune it. You can tune may different ways...if he tuned it like they tune their drag bikes...I would say its lean. Running one on the lean side for a few seconds don't hurt it...but riding like you are...it will make it run hot.

and it will kill the life of your engine!! but x2 on the radiator, john cannons 1004cc is runnin stock rad. all the drag bike that are 1169cc are runnin stock rad. so likewise to what dan said i would not worry about the radiator, jm2cw
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:10 am

I assume they did a Dual cylinder tune on you bike? If want it re-tuned let me know. I'll make you a deal on it since it already has bungs on the pipes. I'm a $100 cheaper than anyone else on Dual cylinder tunes anyway.

I would put the thermostat back in it...then I would really consider getting it tuned again. Whether it be me or someone else...it would be a lot cheaper than ruining your motor. Especially since you have already spent the money in having it built. Not trying to sale you on me tuning it...like I said, whether it be me or someone else. That is something I would do for sure if it was mine.

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Jug Head
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:33 am

MR rpm has been known to leave the water pump gear out make sure the water is even circulating.
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NO4NCRP
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:14 am

Jug Head wrote:
MR rpm has been known to leave the water pump gear out make sure the water is even circulating.


VERY GOOD POINT. Do that 1st.
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:21 pm

Jug Head wrote:
MR rpm has been known to leave the water pump gear out make sure the water is even circulating.

What are you serious - he would freak if he saw this ....
He freaks easy anyhow .

Naw the water is circulating big time - if you throttle it hard it will push a good deal of water right out of the OPEN rad .
If its idling you can see a smooth consistant flow .
Thermostat on order - wont be here untill next tuesday.
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Bootlegger
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:52 pm

ok...I'm kinda confused on this. When is it getting hot? I see you said it does it when your riding hard and then again a few paragraphs lower you say if you ride hard you can keep it cool.

Does it only get hot when your running it at WOT? Again...I would try the thermostat and if that don't help, get it tuned. Just make sure its dual cylinder tuned. Are you running a PC3 or PC5 on it? Not that it matters....just wondering. Tuning these bikes correctly is a key to the power on them. Especially if its a built motor. They did tune it right?

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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:10 pm

WOT
PC3
Sure feels and sounds tuned right . I had some of best mechanics around listening to it and they said it sounds very good .
Not sure what they can tell though.

NO4 had same problem - thermostat fixed it .

I had thought it was warm when running slow once but i discovered that it was low on fluid .
Ive tested it over and over and over .

I cleaned RAD out of bike ran the day lights out of it and cleaned it again .
RAD shows zero signs of swelling .
Water is circulateing
Cap is good


It runs hot only at 100 % WOT .

In fact it will rung great as stay way way cool for a really long time in the woods etc .
I road 3 hours as fast as i could in the woods and it was great .
I was never over 40 mostly 25...

But i get on it hard on the road or in a big long field and go WOT and its over with very very shortly. It gets Hot and pushes fluid out the resivor overflow .
Not much sense even talking about it anymore untill i install the the thermostat as NO4 had this exact problem - exact ....
You get my PM?
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:18 pm

@ Sammy - Powerbomb

Yeah man i hear ya big time - after the last GNCC where i saw Buchannon win ute class on a stock engine - Im done with Mods .
Ill focus on suspension only - Id like to keep one of the fast bikes but i want pure stock from now on - right down to the exhaust even .
You can win any harescramble there is with a stock engine Buchannon proved it .
Its total in the woods skill - has nothing to do with HP.
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:01 pm

Winnining -lol winning -
Look at that exhaust -
He blows everybody away including Checco on a stock engine and stock clutch - this is Bryan Buchannon - i have more respect for this racer than anyone . He is a bon-a fied bad @$$


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CanAmChris
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:07 pm

I would bet dollars to donuts the Tune is off at WOT.. No mechanic no matter how good he is can tell if one is tuned by listening.. The only way to tell 100% is on a wideband..

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CanAmChris
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:10 pm

Jerry Check your PM
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Bootlegger
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:49 pm

Exactly what Chris said and if they can...I wanna learn form then.

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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:40 pm

Boot you want to learn FORM then -me and you spell alot alike .
Overall yer way way better .
No way better , you make sense where as im trying .

I love you guys - yall are so supportive .
Sammy - Yoshi- Dan And the list is to long - Phill and Phill .
Can am Chris - its just evrerbody .
Big G - G man
I cant lst the whole list .
Big red one . Buck - Buck is special fo sho - dang good heart .
yall have been supportive since my first mile .

CATVR ROCKS.
Am i sappy enuff ----

I will be glad when this stupid elusive problem is solved - i could ride tho.
Thank to the Gang -

To contridict myself --- i definally want to keep this Hoss of and engine .
Its just fast not to keep ....
To think im so close now - im really really close to haveing and almost perfect bike .

I appreciate yall - yer family to me whether im family back i dont know .

PMW - im praying fer you as i was way way back - when you became the incredible shrinking man . Thats was more impressive than anythng ive seen in the last years .
I guees ive hyjacked my own thread .
Wyld thank for the constant encouragment and wisdom .
Jason - where would i be without you Jason NO4 - he has taught me alot .
And Rooster where would WEWEWE all be without you man.
Big Daddy - you rock .
Jody and rock star - yall have been twisted and have been good .
Keep me on my toes - i need that.

To all the CATVR family thanks .
Im gonna lick this problem which is nothing compared to real life problems .
Nothing- but we all share a commom bond and sometimes it seems real important .
I love you folks .

I want to say thanks - nearly varrr a one of you havent tried to help .
And now i shall put in a new thermostate of all the thngs - can it really be true ?
Laigh at me long if it works .....

I really Preeeeeciate it . You people are the Best
Jar
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Wyld
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:31 am

It'll come to ya sooner or later. opefully sooner. I had a little overheating issue myself at PC on saturday. Think my rad wasn't fully clean from the last time i rode it. But definately i need to clean it with simple green( CAC) is it best to take the rad out and fully clean before reinstalling it. I usually stay out of deep mud, but you know how it is, sometimes you just drool over places your buddies go and you don't wanna but it looks like so much fun.

Wisdom? well, maybe a bit. encouragement is more like it. As for racing, I'm sticking to the straight line racing for time being, maybe eventually i'll get into the type stuff you are doing. But mine on a mainly stock quad. I don't wanna be doing the run-around stuff you are getting into.

Jerry, i can say you are one of a kind. That's a compliment coming from another one of a kind.

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NO4NCRP
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PostSubject: Re: Running hot   Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:37 am

I kinda feel like we all should hug Wink

I think Chris is right too Jeri. I think WHEN you put your t-stat back in it will help but not solve your problem. I would without a doubt stick a wideband on it and check your tune, especially in the upper rpms. Let Boot do it, I've heard good things bout his tuning.
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