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 Pickett Problems

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GIP
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PostSubject: Pickett Problems   Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:26 pm

Seen this on mud and guts forum:

http://www.mudandgutsoffroadforum.org/t1513-who-loves-to-ride-at-pickett
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:04 am

If you like Pickett call Sunnybrook and speak with Carl or his wife and get your name on the list to be a supporter .
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Rooster
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:07 pm

Okay I have a question. Exactly what are we supporting. A Paid Permit program, A Lease that we all pay into, or continue to ride free?
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:47 pm

I think all Carl is trying to do now is get a list together of people that want to keep Pickett open
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Smiley
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:42 am

One thing that you have to remember is that the majority of the land known as Pickett is PRIVATE property. If the land owners want to shut it down, there is nothing we can really do about it. If they want to log it, there again is nothing that can be done to stop it. Being that it is private property, atv, utv and other off road vehicles have no right to be on the property with out the owner's specific permission.
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GIP
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:13 am

I posted this from another forum as reference, but I do question the motives here. As at one time on some forum somewhere I seen where the guy at sunnybrook was closing shop now he's getting names for a petition, as smiley stated most of the land is in private hands, though pickett is my favorite riding place I smell something fishy is a brewing???
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:42 am

There aint nothing fishy brewing !
They want to keep it open to support their livelyhood
I suggest call the owner and speak with them about it
The land changed hands
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CNC_guy
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:34 am

I spoke to a rep from Wayne Lumber last night and I also spoke at length with Carl. The guy at Wayne Lumber said that Wayne Lumber and Cumberland Woodlands sold the tracts of land out there where the riding takes place. They still own some land in the area but not where the trails are. They sold the land to The Forestland Group, LLC which created another LLC for this area called Cumberland Forest. These are the people Carl is talking to. This is a huge lumber company that has been through this several times. My understanding is this is standard procedure for them when buying land that is used like this particular area. The area is up for lease....first come first serve and whoever leases it must carry insurance.

In talking with Carl, he is just looking for names of people that want to support continued riding out there. The names he is gathering would probably comprise a club with yearly, weekly or daily fees to be paid to the Sunnybrook Sandwich shop. These fees would pay for the lease and insurance on the property. Also, Carl and the "club" would be responsible for trail up keep.

Two things from my point of view (like it matters).....

1. I mentioned possibly getting the county government involved but Carl didn't seem to care for that idea. If the county were involved and on board, they could take care of insurance, collecting fees and advertisement. This would also keep the heat off as far as the Sheriff's department is concerned. Carl could make his money by renting spots and parking or even by selling permits for the county.

2. I spoke to Carl's wife first while he was finishing mowing. She said that if this worked, all other trail heads would be closed. I don't agree with this and closing all trail heads but the store's would hurt local support of the effort. Locals are already skeptical enough as it is.

Either way, I'll support whatever keeps the area open.
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GIP
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:04 pm

I just called and left my name and number, as stated in the connector post above call Carl at

The phone number is 606 348 4767 and all you have to do is give him your name to add to the list saying your are interested in joining the club to help pay the insurance. there is not obligation at this point, just accumulating names at this point in support
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:30 pm

Jerry,

What you say sounds all good. There are several problems with Carl's plan......The biggest and one that GIP can associate with is a Club and Club Members doing the Trail Maintenance, and Trail Head Control. The Windrock ATV Club use to do that at Coal Creek. Until TDEC came down on them, which is what would eventually happen at Pickett if it becomes organized. TDEC put to many demands on the WRATVC and they threw their arms up and gave it back to Coal Creek.....

Club workdays, well without monetary considerations, most people will not get out there to help out or if they do it might be once. Also, to be bonifide a club will have to be chartered and registered as a 501(c) Corporation Non Profit. Taxes will have to be paid, meetings held and documented everything that goes along with a 501(c).

I have seen all this first hand and so have several of the members on this forum. It is not an easy task, running a Club, Running a Riding Area. Coal Creek has hired security guards that have Concealed Carry Cards checking permits and running the trails. What is Pickett going to have if this is all organized?



Last edited by Rooster on Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:40 pm

Rooster why dont you work it out then ?
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Rooster
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:34 pm

darkstar wrote:
Rooster why dont you work it out then ?

It would be impossible for me to do that. But with enough momentum and the right people with enough energy and time to devote it could be worked out. Brimstone done it!

I am just stating in my above thread some food for thought. Maybe one of the riders that hangs out around here is a good lawyer or knows one to help with the drawing up of the paper work. Are we riders or OHV Area Managers?
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OutlanderDan
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:32 pm

I can remember when the whole thing at CC was falling apart, alot of upset and tense folks in those days. Gladly, it is MUCH better now, but it was definately a bumpy road back then.

I hate to see Pickett go, but this could turn out to be alot more complicated than anyone is thinking...I can see where the lumber company doesn't want to be hauled into court because of an ATV accident, and the Club alternative is a tough hill to climb without some talented and commited folks to take over. Luckily CC had that, Pickett doesn't...
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:50 pm

I see it way different
I see me being on the hunting lease like here at home
No problemo
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:54 pm

OD youd be suprised at the amount of kentucky locals who all want to continue riding thier favorite area as well
Either way a lease is a lease at the start
Theres good stuff here i cant mention on a public forum
If you want to ride there
Dont miss the boat
Im sure all yall already know about the clean up crews
Right ?
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Wyld
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:46 pm

Just added my name and number to carl's list. Hope we can all work something to keep this riding area open.

Even though i don't ride pickett that much, I'd sure not want to lose that riding area like we lost Cowan.
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:27 pm

I just want to let everyone know - the clean up crew is BIG TIME FULL SWING - it has been that way for 2 years -
Look around - you see any trash ?
Jerr
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Disaster
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:00 pm

Guys, is the area even in TN. I thought most of the riding area was in KY.
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:30 am

It moslty in Kenticky Disater - but its tight on the line - you ride in and out of kentcky and tennessee over and over during an normal ride -
If you have not been - better check it out - Its the best riding area in TN Kentucky IMO
Its pretty much the hall of fame riding area for many reasons .
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darkstar
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:35 am

Asking that question from a local Kentucky rider is unusual ---That dose sound fishy as GIP pointed out already .

I say if its as simple as a hunting lease im ready to pay my dues to be on the lease .
I did see alot of Cumberland land etc in many other areas so thats got me wondering .
Maybe Carl can update us .
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Disaster
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:47 am

I know most of the riding is KY, but the area in question, is it KY or TN. If it is KY there are laws removing responsibility from the land-owner if someone is injured on an atv. The lease is all about the money.
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Disaster
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:47 am

Darkstar, I have ridden there a few times. Very good riding area. I hope the situation doesn't go to the buzzards!
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CNC_guy
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:39 am

Disaster, all of the land in question is in KY. The lumber companies have told me that they don't believe the law you are talking about has any teeth when it comes to companies and that any competent lawyer could win an injury case against them. I had already tried that argument when Wayne Lumber had me to cancel a benefit ride. They believe that law is more for individual land owners and do not want to risk relying on that law in a court case.

Darkstar, it's not as easy paying the lease. Sure, the lumber company sees Carl making money on their land and probably would like to profit as well through a lease, but the big thing is insurance. That is where the big expense will be.

Outlander Dan, I'd like for you to qualify your statement a bit. Do you personally know any of the locals that have ridden the area for 30 years and their commitment level?
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OutlanderDan
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:31 pm


Outlander Dan, I'd like for you to qualify your statement a bit. Do you personally know any of the locals that have ridden the area for 30 years and their commitment level?[/quote]

I do not. I also see no organization, no formal signage and no collective cause for a Club oriented riding area either...CC had all of these attributes right before the whole CC / WATVC fiasco took place...Pickett is nothing more than a huge maze of unmaintained trails (although some have done extensive work there on a volunteer basis)

So to clarify my statement, CC had alot more going for it in terms of organization at the time of the CC / WATVC transition than it appears from my perspective, that Pickett does at the same time from being a local great riding spot to a place that a new Owner wants his butt covered on land he lets numerous riders, of all skill levels, use as recreation site.

I meant nothing about anyones dedication to the area, just stating that they have a long way to go to reach a organized and insured riding area such as CC status is currently.

I hope you feel qualified now...



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CNC_guy
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PostSubject: Re: Pickett Problems   Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:02 pm

I see what you are saying and agree with you at this time that it would be a long road to get the area on par with other organized riding areas like CC or Brimstone and etc....

However, you did say that "the Club alternative is a tough hill to climb without some talented and commited folks to take over. Luckily CC had that, Pickett doesn't..." I disagree here because there are talented and committed folks that love the area and want their kids and grand kids to have a local place to ride. And, the good news is that the new owners have told Carl that it's not their desire to close the area down and that they aren't anti-ATV and they also understand it could take some time to get organized. Now, can it happen with Carl and the sandwich shop leading the way? I don't know.

OutlanderDan wrote:


I hope you feel qualified now...


My question was not me being a smart butt....hope you didn't take it that way. Looking back at it I see where it could be taken as such.
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