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 Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off

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PostSubject: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:57 pm

Well another one bites the dust. I hate this.

We rode up to Dogwood Church figuring to ride over to Mtn. Roosevelt and guess what. They have posted signs all over the section and put up a big cable and logs with some B.S. sign about being the Whites Creek Water Shed. The sign stated that according to Tennessee Law Motorized vehicles were not allowed in there. Only foot traffic.

If you recall I wrote about this in another thread dated April 28.

I know the reason they closed it. It was people that were going down there to Party and stuff and leaving there trash everywhere.

This really sucks because in my opinion this was one of the most scenic rides in Cumberland County with magnificant views of Watts Bar, Smoky Mtns etc.......

You can still ride Grassy Cove, Black Mountain, over to Dogwood Church.

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:30 pm

Happening more and more everywhere. Retarded tree huggers do more harm than good, and the trash droppers don't help.
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:19 pm

Sad And I've never gotten to ride there. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:26 pm

Smiley wrote:
Sad And I've never gotten to ride there. Sad

I know. I hate it for all the fine people hear that never got to see it. We spent most of our day today on Black Mountain. It was a fun ride. We will have to plan something up there soon Smiley.


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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:27 pm

We can plan a ride to Roosevelt from the other side near the airport.
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:57 pm

Tennessee_Tornado wrote:
We can plan a ride to Roosevelt from the other side near the airport.

That is a good idea. Do you think Anthony will guide us? I see that we don't have anything planned for
July 12.

Check it out and let us know.
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:58 pm

10-4
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:11 pm

Folks,

I speak for the Whites Creek Watershed Restoration Project. We are made up of landowners along Whites Creek and its tributaries and adjacent lands, such as those that border Mt. Roosevelt State Forest.

For many years we have tried to share our land and property but things have gotten out of hand and it has to come to a stop. On my property alone, the restoration biologists estimate that it will take well over $100,000 and several years to mitigate damage from off road vehicles. It has escalated to the point that we are witnessing species loss in Whites Creek, Fall Creek, and Piney Creek due to sediment from eroded ORV trails.

One creek was a biological study area four years ago by the University of Tennessee because of it's diversity. The biologist I hired to advise me classified it just last week as a dead zone due to sediment caused by ORV's.

We've hauled away an incredible amount of trash only to see more thrown out. We know that most of you are good people and would never do such things, but we've had trees cut down, grafitti painted on trees, rocks, and cliffs, and thousands of acres have been burned repeatedly by arsonists.

We have put up signs notifying folks that Tennessee law says you have to have permission to ride on private land and they've been ignored. We've had large groups of riders come in to our family camp in the middle of the night disturbing everyone. We have had our signs torn down.

We have spent time and money grading our own roads and putting water bars across them to shed storm water and prevent erosion, only to see them plowed through by riders. We've seen no attempt by riders to help maintain the roads they are using without permission. When even small trees or branches fall across the road, we see new routes opened up through our woods instead of helping us maintain the roads, and don't get us started on the mud holes that some riders seem to enjoy creating, and which are the source of devastating amounts of sediment flowing into our streams and killing off the fish.

We have asked nothing of riders except that they respect our property and understand the damage off road vehicles cause and help prevent it. At this point not one single landowner we've contacted wants ORV use to continue on their own private land as a result.

Please don't get us wrong. We don't want to make enemies but we have closed the Gorge completely for now because of our restoration activities to eliminate erosion. We hope to have the gorge become a State Natural Area, with hiking trails open to the public in a few years.

We are asking you to understand that the steep lands in and around the Whites Creek watershed are an inappropriate place for off road vehicles and that, as much as we don't want to, we will begin making cases against riders in the near future. We don't know what else to do.

Please spread the word that the Willet Mountain road in Mt. Roosevelt is only open to motorized vehicles within the TWRA boundaries which end approximately one mile from highway 70. It is all private property beyond that which requires the owner's permission.

Enforcement personel will be in the woods this coming July 4th holiday, just to let you know. They have patrolled it at our request for a few weeks now and as a courtesy we have asked for them to talk to people and not make any cases unless someone causes them trouble. Unfortunately, that has to come to an end and we have to take the next step.

We know that ORV riders as a whole are good folks and we hope you understand that we take these actions after years of searching for an alternative.

Thank you for your willingness to hear us out.

Steve Scarborough

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:13 pm

WhitesCreek wrote:
Folks,

I speak for the Whites Creek Watershed Restoration Project. We are made up of landowners along Whites Creek and its tributaries and adjacent lands, such as those that border Mt. Roosevelt State Forest.

For many years we have tried to share our land and property but things have gotten out of hand and it has to come to a stop. On my property alone, the restoration biologists estimate that it will take well over $100,000 and several years to mitigate damage from off road vehicles. It has escalated to the point that we are witnessing species loss in Whites Creek, Fall Creek, and Piney Creek due to sediment from eroded ORV trails.

One creek was a biological study area four years ago by the University of Tennessee because of it's diversity. The biologist I hired to advise me classified it just last week as a dead zone due to sediment caused by ORV's.

We've hauled away an incredible amount of trash only to see more thrown out. We know that most of you are good people and would never do such things, but we've had trees cut down, grafitti painted on trees, rocks, and cliffs, and thousands of acres have been burned repeatedly by arsonists.

We have put up signs notifying folks that Tennessee law says you have to have permission to ride on private land and they've been ignored. We've had large groups of riders come in to our family camp in the middle of the night disturbing everyone. We have had our signs torn down.

We have spent time and money grading our own roads and putting water bars across them to shed storm water and prevent erosion, only to see them plowed through by riders. We've seen no attempt by riders to help maintain the roads they are using without permission. When even small trees or branches fall across the road, we see new routes opened up through our woods instead of helping us maintain the roads, and don't get us started on the mud holes that some riders seem to enjoy creating, and which are the source of devastating amounts of sediment flowing into our streams and killing off the fish.

We have asked nothing of riders except that they respect our property and understand the damage off road vehicles cause and help prevent it. At this point not one single landowner we've contacted wants ORV use to continue on their own private land as a result.

Please don't get us wrong. We don't want to make enemies but we have closed the Gorge completely for now because of our restoration activities to eliminate erosion. We hope to have the gorge become a State Natural Area, with hiking trails open to the public in a few years.

We are asking you to understand that the steep lands in and around the Whites Creek watershed are an inappropriate place for off road vehicles and that, as much as we don't want to, we will begin making cases against riders in the near future. We don't know what else to do.

Please spread the word that the Willet Mountain road in Mt. Roosevelt is only open to motorized vehicles within the TWRA boundaries which end approximately one mile from highway 70. It is all private property beyond that which requires the owner's permission.

Enforcement personel will be in the woods this coming July 4th holiday, just to let you know. They have patrolled it at our request for a few weeks now and as a courtesy we have asked for them to talk to people and not make any cases unless someone causes them trouble. Unfortunately, that has to come to an end and we have to take the next step.

We know that ORV riders as a whole are good folks and we hope you understand that we take these actions after years of searching for an alternative.

Thank you for your willingness to hear us out.

Steve Scarborough

stevescarb@aol.com

Mr. Scarborough,

I'm the founder of the Cumberland ATV Riders. I seen in your post that you said that people has plowed through barriers and what not. I speak for all of us when I say this " We are extremely sorry for what has happened" and I can assure you it was none of us. This past ride is the first time that any of the CATVR's has tried to access that area to my knowledge. Like you said also, that as as whole ATV Riders are good folks. Thank You for the comment, cause this is a great group of folks. We mainly ride other areas and was trying to find some closer to home.

Is there anything that the Cumberland ATV Riders can do to help with this matter Question If there is feel free to ask or suggest something. Such as trash pick up or anything in that nature. We are willing to help all we can. I fully understand what you are saying and where your coming from. I know most every person on here on a personal level. I can say that you will not make any enemies here. Smile We are "VERY RESPECTFUL" of other peoples property. Again, if there is anything we can do to help please let us know.

Thanks, Mark Barnett

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:20 pm

I second that. Perfect 10
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:52 pm

I'll third it...good post by both Mr. Scarborough and Mark.
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:16 pm

Well said Mark. We will help do anything we can.

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:57 pm

I am humbled. A land owner signs up on the board and explains the situation. Mr. Scarborough, I have only ridden a few times in the Sandy Bottom area and have seen the trash and distruction of your property. I too am truly sorry that it has come to this.

One particular group that I have ridden with, we collected garbage and was told by one of the riders that the trash would return in a matter of a few days. Seemed like a losing battle.

The Club and it's members I am sure would be willing to help you in anyway that you would need. I would hope that someday this area will be opened back up. In my opinion it is one of the most scenic areas of Cumberland County.

I am curious, how did you find my post about Sandy Bottom being closed? Just curious.

I wish you great success with your project and again anything you need please let us know how we can help.

Ron
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:22 pm

Mr. Scarborough,
I am truly sorry to hear about any destruction to yours and others' property caused by ORV. I am new to riding but I am very conscious about packing out what I pack in anywhere I go. Unfortunately everyone doesnt share that responsibility. I respect your right to do what you have to do and I thank you for coming here and posting your views from the land owners side of the story. I also want to offer my help with whatever I am able to do to make things better. Thank you also for allowing us the opportunity in the past to be able to ride and enjoy the beauty of this area we are all proud to call home. God bless you and your family.
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:10 pm

Mr. Scarborough,

I can sympathize with you on a much smaller level, while some neighborhood kids would ride their atvs across part of my adjoining lot just to get from one street to another. In my little half acre it will take alot of work to repair the ground and plants damaged by the repetative riding. I've gotten them to stop by just stopping them and asking them to find another route, but the level of damage possible to hundreds of acres is mind boggling. I've never rode in that area and was hoping to be able to. Again if there is anything I or any of us can do to help your situation, please let us know.

Steven
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:01 pm

Thanks for your positive words, folks. It goes to show that the people who cause most of the problems don't belong to good clubs or hang around forums like this one. (This forum is one of the nicer ones I've seen, by the way...Good job, whoever runs it)

We will have stream biologists surveying Whites Creek and it's tributaries over the next two weeks. I will try to come back and let you know what they tell us.

Thanks for your offers to help. It appears that the main thing we will have to do requires heavy equipment to repair the ruts and waterbars in the roads. Then we'll have to replant the streamside vegitation and just wait for mother nature to fix things.

If there is one thing I would suggest riders learn to do, though, it is to get off your ATV and walk the last 50 to 100 feet to water. That is the most fragile part of the ecosystem, and the most beautiful. Our real problem is not "use" of these areas, but "over use", except for the knuckleheads.


I promise to keep the dialog open and you guys feel free to contact me at any time.

Steve

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:21 pm

WhitesCreek wrote:
Thanks for your positive words, folks. It goes to show that the people who cause most of the problems don't belong to good clubs or hang around forums like this one. (This forum is one of the nicer ones I've seen, by the way...Good job, whoever runs it)

We will have stream biologists surveying Whites Creek and it's tributaries over the next two weeks. I will try to come back and let you know what they tell us.

Thanks for your offers to help. It appears that the main thing we will have to do requires heavy equipment to repair the ruts and waterbars in the roads. Then we'll have to replant the streamside vegitation and just wait for mother nature to fix things.

If there is one thing I would suggest riders learn to do, though, it is to get off your ATV and walk the last 50 to 100 feet to water. That is the most fragile part of the ecosystem, and the most beautiful. Our real problem is not "use" of these areas, but "over use", except for the knuckleheads.


I promise to keep the dialog open and you guys feel free to contact me at any time.

Steve

stevescarb@aol.com


Thanks Steve and do keep us posted. There are plenty of us willing to help you. Just call upon us if we can be of assistance in your restoration project. Photography is one of my passions and your area is like I said one of the most scenic in Cumberland County. I wish you good luck.

Ron Durant
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:37 pm

WhitesCreek wrote:
Thanks for your positive words, folks. It goes to show that the people who cause most of the problems don't belong to good clubs or hang around forums like this one. (This forum is one of the nicer ones I've seen, by the way...Good job, whoever runs it)

We will have stream biologists surveying Whites Creek and it's tributaries over the next two weeks. I will try to come back and let you know what they tell us.

Thanks for your offers to help. It appears that the main thing we will have to do requires heavy equipment to repair the ruts and waterbars in the roads. Then we'll have to replant the streamside vegitation and just wait for mother nature to fix things.

If there is one thing I would suggest riders learn to do, though, it is to get off your ATV and walk the last 50 to 100 feet to water. That is the most fragile part of the ecosystem, and the most beautiful. Our real problem is not "use" of these areas, but "over use", except for the knuckleheads.


I promise to keep the dialog open and you guys feel free to contact me at any time.

Steve

stevescarb@aol.com


Steve,


Again thank you for the comments. PWM and Myself Run the Forum.....But in my opinion.... the credit goes to our members. Thumb They are a great group of Guys & Gals. I couldn't ask for any better. We don't tolerate alot of Crap and we don't really have any of those type of knuckle heads on here anyway. Laughing Laughing and won't Wink

Yes, please keep us up to date on whats going on and let us know if we can help in any way. I was told today by some that you all have alot of trouble with kids partying and leaving Trash everywhere. Keep in mind We would be glad tgo help with trash clean up or whatever is needed of us. I just hate that this really happened. Some people/riders have no respect.

Thanks Again for coming back and responding,

Mark Barnett

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:55 am

Here is an Update on the Sandy Bottoms - White Creek Area. I sent Mr Scarborough an email last night and he responded back. I let him know that we were up there doing a clean-up and trail maint.



Hi Ron,

Thanks for keeping me posted on the good activities of your group.

Just to keep you up to date on Whites Creek, I walked Sandy Bottom with our restoration biologist last Sunday and was told that it is three to five years from natural recovery. We had done some replanting but someone rode through the cables and destroyed the new growth at the water's edge. It only takes one rider to undo months of work. If I can stress one thing to you, it is to get the word out that stream side vegetation is crucial and folks should take real care to avoid disturbing it. Stay on the trails. If you want to look at the streams, get off and walk.

The sediment released from removing the vegetation at Sandy Bottom is having negative effects at least as far as two miles down stream. The Blue Hole has 12 feet of mud in the bottom of it and is now only 18 feet deep. It was measured at 34 feet only a few years back. This is a fairly grave indicator of what may be a very widespread problem. It will take time.

We are carrying trash out on foot due to the ongoing restoration efforts, and have made progress, but we have lots to go.

For the most part most riders have been accepting of our efforts, and we greatly appreciate that. We have documented over 200 contacts with riders and the great majority have been cooperative. We have also documented over 20 cases of criminal trespass, but have refrained from making any cases so far. This may change soon. It's only a few bad eggs and I guess they deserve what they get, but I personally hate to take this next step.

Thanks for your consideration and keep up the good works.

Steve Scarborough

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:03 am

I thought it was open now?

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:15 am

Bootlegger wrote:
I thought it was open now?

We rode down the road yesterday to check. The Cable was still up over the road and signs were still posted.
So no it is not Opened Up.
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:19 pm

this guy is a control freak thet thinks atvs are destroying sandy bottoms he has been trying to close off every trail he has seen for the last 20 years he is the kind of person who only looks for reasons to close a trail. the truth is if he has it his way all the trails will be closed and never reopened he said the eroded trails are caused by atvs but i am not stupid that trail has been travled for over a hundred years and has been in the same shape for the past 15 years i know and i dont think we should give up so easy this is a through trail and has been an open route for travel and was started by horse and buggy and one tree hugger thinks he can just close it. i dont think we should go down that easy!
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:24 pm

bmccloud wrote:
this guy is a control freak thet thinks atvs are destroying sandy bottoms he has been trying to close off every trail he has seen for the last 20 years he is the kind of person who only looks for reasons to close a trail. the truth is if he has it his way all the trails will be closed and never reopened he said the eroded trails are caused by atvs but i am not stupid that trail has been travled for over a hundred years and has been in the same shape for the past 15 years i know and i dont think we should give up so easy this is a through trail and has been an open route for travel and was started by horse and buggy and one tree hugger thinks he can just close it. i dont think we should go down that easy!
We are working to earn his respect. Right now he holds the keys to the lock so we want to do what we can to make him see that we are worthy of his respect also. We will not make any progress if we press forward with the attitude you have shown in your post. Work WITH us to change his mind in a positive way. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:28 pm

I have to say though that nature itself will change things such as washing away stuff such as old roads and trails whether we ride on them or not. It just nature way! Very Happy If we do go in with a Bad attitude we will accomplish nothing

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PostSubject: Re: Sandy Bottom, Rockwood Overlook Closed Off   Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:19 pm

Bootlegger wrote:
I have to say though that nature itself will change things such as washing away stuff such as old roads and trails whether we ride on them or not. It just nature way! Very Happy If we do go in with a Bad attitude we will accpmplish nothing

That's right folks. We have started something that will gain us some respect. By doing the clean-up campaign on the Black Mountain side of this trail. I would do the same for Sandy Bottoms if access was allowed.

Tree Hugger or Not, if the man truly owns that property then he has the right to dictate who uses it.

There are still plenty of places to ride and we should do our part to be respectful of other peoples property.
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